No Vince Coleman Tangents

First off, this post has more 1986 Topps Glossy Mail-In cards, but I am only going to mention Vince Coleman once.  I'm done.  Let's look at some cards.

First off, I skipped a few cards during my first post.  I was trying to show the set off in numerical order, but I missed this grouping of cards.....

with Darryl Strawberry, Ron Guidry, and Chris Brown.  Probably distracted by writing about a Cardinals player and I skipped right over this scan.

Guidry was towards the end of his career, but his 1985 was great.  He led the American League with 22 wins and finished second in Cy Young voting.  Strawberry was not really high on my list in 1986, Cardinals and Mets had a pretty good rivalry at that time, but this is a nice card.  I like the polyester uniform and the action shot.  Nice card.

Chris Brown was a prospect in the set.  Interestingly, he and Strawberry, along with Eric Davis, all came from the same part of Los Angeles, and grew up playing baseball together.  Not sure if Topps put these cards together intentionally.  Brown's baseball career never panned out and he ended up driving trucks in Iraq.  When he returned from Iraq he died from burns as a result of a house fire. Bizarre incident.

The Hershiser card is a second year card.  I often associate the peak of his career as being in 1988 with the Cy Young Award and the World Series title, but 1985 was not far behind.  The 19-3 record with a 2.03 ERA clearly got buried behind Gooden and Tudor that season.

Gary Carter was a catcher.  Again, not a huge fan of the Mets, but he was a really good player.

I learned something with this last card.  I am well versed with Seaver's time with the Mets and Reds, but I also know that I have a bunch of White Sox and Red Sox cards from the time I collected in the 1980s.  Always assumed that those final years were his way to hanging around the game.  It turns out that Seaver still had some good years though.  Picked up his 300th win as a White Sox....

with Richard Nixon in attendance.  Not as good as his years with the Mets and Reds, but not exactly a slouch.  

I actually had all three of these cards when I started this project, but ended up replacing all three of them.  Some soft corners from the younger version of me.  Although, after doing a little cleaning this past weekend, I actually found another copy of the Pedro Guerrero card.  Guessing I might have replaced it while he was on the Cardinals, or at some point afterwards.  

Fisher was a good young pitcher for the Yankees, had a very good 1985 out of the bullpen.  He was actually a member of the 1982 Durham Bulls.  He was traded to the Pirates for Rick Rhoden and was given a chance to start, but injuries derailed his career.  Fisher appeared in only 35 games between 1989 and 1992.  Gibson and Fisk's inclusion is the set is pretty obvious, both very good players at this point.  

The Tommy Herr was the only Cardinals card that I needed for this entire project.  I remember these were sold in groups, but I do not seem to have the break down of these cards.  Obviously I did not get these, I was also missing the Murray and Mattingly.  I used to base the portions of the sets I got on the Cardinals players in each grouping.  If there were enough Cardinals in the set, and they were spread out, then someone got skipped.  Sorry, Tommy.  

Murray is a Hall of Famer, but the Mattingly card would have been a great one to own around this time.  I do not think that Mattingly should be in the Hall, but his first five or six seasons were excellent.  If he had played at that level for a few more years, he would be in.  

 Easy to pick out a favorite card in this set.  That Quisenberry card looks great with the front view of that submarine deliver.  I like that the baseball is a blur in front of Quiz.  I do not specific collect Quisenberry cards, but he was on the Cardinals for a few years at the end of his career.  His cards usually at least catch my eye.  There are a few other 1980s Quisenberry cards with a similar view, but this is the best of them.  

Last set of cards for this post......

This is a hard group to end on.  Who do I like in this group?  I like the brown Padres jersey on the Steve Garvey card.  That's all I got.  The rest of the set next week.  

Friday Five: Top 5 Greensboro Minor Leaguers

I spent a little bit of last Sunday checking out a game in Greensboro.  It's the second straight year that I have made the trek west to visit NewBridge Bank Ballpark, which is the home to the Marlins entry in the South Atlantic League.  If you live within driving distance of Greensboro, or are going to be in North Carolina at some point during the baseball season, it is worth a few hours of your time to catch a game at this stadium.

It was a rough afternoon for the Grasshoppers, the current name of the team, who were taking on the Kannapolis Intimidators.  The Intimidators are a White Sox affiliate.  Instead of writing a post on the current squad, I am going to take a little bit of time and write about some of the great players who have passed through Greensboro over the years.

There are some teams that do a great job of recognizing their past teams and players inside of their stadiums, and for this, the Grasshoppers definitely get strong marks.  Around the concourse of the field the team has banners that are broken down by decade that recognize different teams and players.  The banners are very well done.

There has been organized professional baseball in Greensboro for more than 100 years, but with a short ten walk, and a little bit of reading, baseball fans can soak in all of the greatness that has happened in the city's baseball history.  I took some notes, did a little supplemental research at home, and have assembled my top five Greensboro Minor Leaguers.  

The list is deep and told in baseball cards as always.....

Honorable Mention-

Jorge Posada - 1992 Greensboro Hornets 

Posada played on the 1992 Greensboro entry along with fellow future Yankees Derek Jeter and Shane Spencer.  In 101 games, Posada posted a .277/.389./472 line with 12 home runs, 22 doubles, 58 RBIs, and a surprising 11 stolen bases.  Posada went on to play 17 seasons in the Majors, all with the Yankees, collecting more than 1,500 hits, 275 home runs, 1000 RBIs while helping the team win the World Series in 1998, 1999, 2000, and 2009.  Jay Jaffe's JAWS system rates him as the 16th best catcher of all-time just behind Thurman Munson.  

Don Mattingly - 1980 Greensboro Hornets 

Mattingly's appearance in Greensboro marked his first full season in professional baseball after spending 1979 in the short-seasoned New York-Penn League.  The Hornets boasted an infield with Donny Ballgame, future Twins fixture Greg Gagne, and Rex "Wonderdog" Hudler.  Otis Nixon was also an infielder on the team and future Twins and Phillies pitcher Fred Toliver anchored the rotation.  Overall a really deep team for the low minors.  Mattingly managed to post a .358/.422/.498 line with 9 home runs, 32 doubles, and 105 RBIs.  Overall, Mattingly would go on to play 14 seasons with the Yankees collecting 2,153 hits, 222 home runs, and 1099 RBIs.  He won the 1984 American League Batting Title with a .343 mark and also won the 1985 AL MVP Award.  

and now for the Top 5

5. Andy Pettitte - 1992 Greensboro Hornets 

Pettitte pitched for the Greensboro Hornets during his second year in the Minors.  After being drafted in the 22nd Round of the 1990 draft, Pettitte started his professional career the next summer with stops in the GCL and the New York-Penn League.  For the Hornets, Pettite went 10-4 in 27 starts with a 2.20 ERA. Andy Pettitte would go on to pitch 18 years with the Yankees and Astros.  Overall, he won 256 games and ended his career with 2,448 strikeouts.  Pettitte was also an important part of the Yankees winning the World Series in 1998, 1999, 2000, and 2009 ending his career with a total of 19 postseason wins.  5 of those victories occurred in the World Series.  

4. Robinson Cano - 2002 Greensboro Bats 

Cano appeared on the 2002 squad along with Shelley Duncan and Dioner Navarro.  The year marked a sort of a break out for Cano who was just 19 at the time, making him one of the younger players on the squad.  In 2001, Cano's first season in the Yankees system, he posted a .231/.328/.361 line with just 3 home runs and 14 doubles in almost 250 at bats.  In his lone season for the Bats, Cano hit .276/.321/.445 with 14 home runs, 9 triples, and 20 doubles.  Cano is the lone active player on this list, but has put in 12 seasons so far with the Yankees and Mariners.  He is 33 and already over 2,000 hits, 250 home runs, and is approaching 500 doubles.  Jaffe's JAWS system already rates him as the 14th best second baseman of all-time and his peak 7 years of WAR already exceed the average Hall of Fame second baseman.  His best seven years have already past Hall of Famers Ryne Sandberg, Craig Biggio, and Roberto Alomar measured by WAR.  Should be in Cooperstown at some point in the future.  

3. Curt Schilling - 1987 Greensboro Hornets 

Schilling actually started out his career as a Red Sox, later traded to the Orioles for Brady Anderson.  Schilling started 28 games for the Hornets that year and posted an 8-15 record.  His 3.82 ERA wasn't terrible, but he also struck out 189 batters in 184 innings.  The Hornets finished 30 games under .500 that season, so I am going to go ahead and overlook the 15 loses.  The beginning of Schilling's Major League career also got off to a bit of a slow start.  He ended up playing a total of 20 years, but only won 105 games during his first 12 years.  His last 8 seasons, split between the Diamondbacks and Red Sox, netted him 111 wins.  Schilling also surpassed 3,000 strikeouts, 11 postseason wins, and 3 World Series rings.  Schilling is not in the Hall of Fame yet, but should get there one of these days...

2. Mariano Rivera - 1991 Greensboro Hornets and 1993 Greensboro Hornets 

Rivera passed through Greensboro twice on his way up to the Yankees.  However, he was a starting pitcher almost the entire time he was in the Minors.  Overall, Rivera pitched 39 games for the Hornets during the two stops with 25 starts.  His combined won-loss record of 5-9 is not great, but during his first appearance in the South Atlantic League he pitched 114 innings and struck out 123 hitters.  His second time through he started ten games, only one once, and again had an excellent strikeout rate.  Rivera is the first of three Hall of Famers on this list, or he will be soon, after a great 19 year career as the Yankees closer.  He's MLBs all-time save leader with 652, but more importantly he was one of the greatest postseason pitchers in the history of the game.  Rivera ended his career with 42 postseason saves and a 0.70 ERA.  

1. Derek Jeter - 1992 Greensboro Hornets and 1993 Greensboro Hornets 

Jeter also appeared twice for the Hornets and is by far the most popular former Greensboro player out there.  Jeter first appeared for the team in 1992 closing out the year.  Jeter actually spent part of the season with the GCL Yankees before playing 11 games with the Hornets.  His .243/.378/.324 line was nothing to write home about, but it's also a really small sample size.  In 1993 Jeter returned to Greensboro, but stayed the entire season posting a .295/.376/.394 line with 5 home runs, 11 triples, 14 doubles, and 18 steals.  Jeter went on to play 20 seasons with the Yankees recording 3,465 hits, 260 home runs, 358 stolen bases, and won four rings.  

My Top 50 Players On Cardboard #44 Don Mattingly

My Top 50 Players On Cardboard
#44
Don Mattingly

1984 Topps Don Mattingly RC

Hobby Impact-
He's a Yankee who was a pretty good player.  That is always worth quite a bit around the world of baseball cards.  Growing up, the Don Mattingly rookie cards were always pretty good cards to own.  For years I had a copy of the 1984 Topps card, but the bottom left corner had a tear over his picture.  Sometime in college I found a cheap box of 1984 Topps cards and busted them open.  I was pumped to land a good copy of the Mattingly rookie.  I've added the Donruss and Fleer at some point over the years too.  Mattingly rookies are not the most valuable cards in the world, but they are pretty darn popular.

Mattingly's popularity in the hobby extends beyond his rookie cards.  He's one of the few 80s stars whose base cards will sell slightly above junk wax prices and there is good demand on some of his 90s inserts.  In fact, his 90s inserts not only sell, but they actually draw a pretty good price.  I remember trying to put together the 1994 Flair Hot Gloves set a few years back.  Last card I need was Don Mattingly.  Hard to find.  Expensive to buy.  The set is complete, but just know you are going to pay for hard to find Matttingly cards.  His 1993 Finest Refractor is one that frequently crosses triple digits.


1994 Flair Hot Gloves Don Mattingly

On the Field Impact-
As a Cardinals fan I could always identify with Don Mattingly.  Cardinals fans always have their fan favorites and they are always completely overvalued.  For example, there is a huge crowd of people who think that Willie McGee should have his number retired.  McGee had a few nice seasons, but he's not Red Schoendienst, Ozzie Smith, or even Ken Boyer (the only retired Cardinals number of a non-Hall of Famer).  Mattingly might be closer to Ken Boyer than Willie McGee, but in my opinion he's not a Hall of Famer.  Sorry Yankees fans.  He's a really nice player and had some spectacular seasons, but there was not much there when he was not healthy.  Which was often.

Now, the 1980s Yankees were not as bad as everyone made them out to be.  Sure they went a whole decade without a World Series title, but there were some good teams around them.  1983 they won 91 games, but finished third behind the Tigers and World Champion Orioles.  1984 they won 87 and were in the same division as the Tigers.  1985 they won 97 games, 1986 they won 90, 1987 they won 87, 1988 they won 85, and 1989 they were actually really bad.  Through all of those just misses Don Mattingly was the best player on the team.  I like the 1980s Don Mattingly and will readily admit that if the production shown below had continued for a few more years I would support Mattingly for the Hall.

I will spare Yankees fans a screen shot of the 1990s Don Mattingly numbers.  They aren't ugly or anything, but they are not Hall of Fame.  Outside the numbers it seemed Mattingly was a blue collar player, hustled, worked hard, and really cared about the team winning.  I think those qualities as a player earn him a lot of love from Yankees fans and really push some of the Hall talk around the former first baseman.  The plaque in Monument Park is cool and more than enough recognition.  Sideburns.

  

By the way, he's a pretty good manager too.

Favorite Card-
I am going off the radar a little bit with my favorite Mattingly, but also sticking with the miniature theme from the Eck post.  I am going to go with the 1989 Topps Sticker Back Card of Donnie Ballgame.  I always really liked this set.  Pretty cool little wrinkle thrown in with the sticker books too.


1989 Topps Sticker Backs Don Mattingly

30 Year Top 50: 1985 Topps

#23-If I had done a countdown of great sets a decade ago this et would have probably been in the top 5.  At worst the top 10.  No set was helped more by the steroid era in baseball and no set was hurt more by the steroid era than the 1985 Topps set.  Sure, I have always loved the design of the cards and think that, style wise, it's one of the better efforts that Topps made during the eighties.  However, this sets fate has really rested with three key rookie cards.

1985 Topps Mark McGwire 

The most important of the big 3 is the Mark McGwire rookie card, which appeared as part of the 1984 Olympic Baseball Team subset.  The card was always pretty popular and grew after McGwire set the rookie home run record in 1987.  The height of the 1985 McGwire rookie came during the home run chase of 1998.  That summer collectors went crazy for this card.  I rarely take the sales option with card shops, trades are always better, but actually ended up selling two copies to one store outside of St. Louis so they would have inventory.  It was the closet to "book" that I've ever been offered on a card by a dealer.  A week later my sales price was much closer to the 50%-60% that shops and dealers traditionally offer.  

1985 Topps Roger Clemens 

The Clemens card was also a pretty popular card shortly after its release.  Clemens shined early in his career for the Red Sox and helped them to the 1986 World Series.  By the mid 90s, Clemens began to fizzle a bit when his career was magically rejuvenated with the Blue Jays and Yankees.  For awhile, the Clemens card was riding the coat tails of the McGwire rookie card.  After all, there is a better Clemens rookie out there for collectors to chase.  By the end of Clemens Yankees years he had crossed 300 wins and 3000 strikeouts, Hall of Fame benchmarks for a pitcher, and his rookie card was a stand alone in the set.  

1985 Topps Kirby Puckett

This has always been my favorite Kirby Puckett rookie card.  I love the old powder blue Twins uniforms with the red TC hats.  Classic and distinctly 80s.  Puckett would go on to win a pair of World Series titles with the Twins and a batting title or two.  He retired early because of an eye injury and was elected to the Hall of Fame in 2001.  Puckett died at the age of 45 in 2006.  His card is the least valuable of the big three rookies, but it's value has always remained pretty steady and his legacy as a Hall of Fame player has never been in question.  

McGwire and Clemens would get caught up in the cloud of steroids and their standing as Hall of Famers has been called into question.  Both of their cards from this set are both highly sought after and popular cards, but lack the same value the both once possessed.  

Like the 1985 Topps set?  Not in my Top 50 countdown is the 1984 Topps.  I considered putting this set in the Top 50 for style and design, but it lacks a quality star rookie card.  I have always loved the block writing down the side of the card showing the team name, different colors for each team, and the two pictures on the card.  I have always thought of this set as the square eighties version of the 1963 Topps set.  I already gave this set a little love last spring.   

1984 Topps Don Mattingly

The best rookie cards in the set belong to Darryl Strawberry and Don Mattingly.  Mattingly is the most popular card of the two.  It's an easy card to find and inexpensive to purchase.  I was never a huge fan of Mattingly, the player version.  He was often injured and did play well when he was healthy, but I believe that longevity should be a part of voters considerations when electing players into the Hall of Fame.  My 2 cents.  

1984 Topps Andy Van Slyke

Similar to the 1985 Topps set, the 84 version, had plenty of great 80s players wearing great polyester uniforms.  My Cardinals are wearing a lot of powder blue uniforms, like this Andy Slyke.  I normally plug going out and buying the set at the end of my posts.  However, for something different, I am going to recommend you pick up a wax box of the 84 Topps.  They can be found for less than $50 and can be a blast to open.  Think about it this way: Instead of buying that box of high end Topps product, buy or trade for a couple of cool singles, take your savings and sink it into a box of these awesome cards.  Just don't chew the gum.  

30 Year Top 50: 1986 Donruss

#42- The 1986 Donruss set was an incredible set at the time of it's release and a few years in the early to mid 90s.  The set featured one of the hottest rookie cards of the 1980's and several other rookie cards that were above average.  For awhile, the Jose Canseco rookie in the set could sell or trade for upwards of $100.  However, with the demise of Jose Canseco the value of his rookie cards also crashed hurting the overall value of this set.

1986 Donruss Rated Rookie Jose Canseco

I am not going to rehash the whole Jose Canseco saga, but he was incredible at the height of his career and fell really hard.  At the time of this set's release, the Donruss Jose Canseco rookie card was one of the most sought after cards.  Often a rookie card makes or breaks a set and in this case the fate of this set followed the Canseco card.  In the late 80's when the Canseco rookie was at it's height, the card also brought up the values of several other rookie cards in the set including Fred McGriff, Paul O'Neill, and Andres Galarraga.  

1986 Donruss Rated Rookie Paul O'Neill

1986 Donruss Rated Rookie Andres Galarraga

1986 Donruss Rate Rookie Fred McGriff

In the end, the "other rookies" in the Donruss set ended up being almost as important as the Jose Canseco.  All three players had careers that were probably better than Canseco's, especially Paul O'Neill who was a key player on four World Championship teams.  None of the four players are Hall of Famers and that has brought down the value of this set to around $20.  It's not the 1988 Donruss set, but it's also not nearly as good as the 1987 set.  

My reason for including this set in my countdown is the simple fact that for a few years in the late 80s this was a great set.  In 1989, Jose Canseco hit 42 home runs to lead the American League while stealing 40 bases and driving in more than 100 runs.  That same season, Fred McGriff enjoyed his second thirty plus home run season, when 30 home runs was a big deal, and draws comparisons on that season with Mark McGwire on Baseball Reference.  O'Neill and Galarraga enjoyed solid seasons, but would have more impact later in their careers.  

Despite it's loss in value the 1986 Donruss set can teach us two important lessons.  First, the 1980s cards all generally lack the kind of cardboard value that vintage cards enjoy.  No fault of the collector's, but its hard to value a card when there are thousands upon thousands of copies of a card.  For me, these sets are still great to take out and look at.  I love the polyester uniforms and seeing cards of players I loved watching as a kid.  Cardinals cards of Danny Cox and Mike Laga.  Yellow Pirates jerseys.  

Second, there are many in the card industry that try to say that the on field product has little effect on the price of a player's cardboard.  If that statement were true, than the Jose Canseco card would still retain some shred of value instead being able to find raw copies of the card for under $5. 

I had such as conversation with the Editor of Beckett Baseball Card Magazine Chris Olds on Twitter during the Cardinals and Nationals game last week.  Basically, I took the view point that Bryce Harper's regular season and postseason performance would have to greatly improve for him to maintain his current level of card values.  

For example, in the mid 90s collectors went crazy for Andruw Jones cards when he played well, as a teenager, in the 1996 playoffs.  Sixteen years later, Andruw Jones is a role player with a low batting average and no defensive skill.  Not to say that is what Harper is to become, but collector's eyeing a high end rookie should look at the cards of Canseco and Jones to better understand the high risk that comes with adding high end rookie cards to their collections.  

Like the 1986 Donruss set?  Not in my Top 50 is the 1984 Donruss set.  This set is very similar to the 1986 Donruss release.  For years, this set was a highly valuable and high sought after piece of cardboard.  There were three important rookie cards in the set, which like the 1986 Donruss, lost value and popularity with the demise of the players.  Most importantly was the Don Mattingly rookie card. 

1984 Donruss Don Mattingly 

Mattingly had a great start to his career, but it was derailed by injuries.  His cards had trouble maintaining their values over time.  Mattingly has moved on to become a successful manager with the Dodgers and still is popular with Yankees collectors.  The other two key rookie cards were the Joe Carter Rated Rookie card and the Darryl Strawberry rookie.

1984 Donruss Darryl Strawberry

1984 Donruss Joe Carter

Strawberry's career followed a similar path as Jose Canseco.  Again, not going to rehash the entire saga, but he was a really good player who turned out to be very average.  His cards are still sought after, but do not maintain much in terms of value.  Joe Carter was a highly thought of prospect who turned into a nice everyday player.  Above average, but not a Hall of Famer.  More importantly he hit a game winning, series ending home run in the 1993 World Series.